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Thread: NEA 308 semi auto! BCL102 previously NEA102/NEA 25. Non restricted

  1. #1

    NEA 308 semi auto! BCL102 previously NEA102/NEA 25. Non restricted

    The current name for this rifle as of 2017-07-09 is the BCL 102 ( Black Creek Labs) . Previously NEA 102 and before that the NEA 25.

    So we've had to keep quiet for this the last couple of weeks. But NEA (North Eastern Arms) has been working on a 308 semi auto for a fair amount of time now that they hope will be non restricted. One NEA vender here in Canada currently has two of these complete with suppressors for testing. We started looking into this after the vender advised Yuri regarding this new rifle. From the NEA facebook page:



    So close... Almost there...and no, I don't have a date for release yet. #308 ‪#‎tryingfornonrestrictedclassificationtakesawhile ‬ ‪#‎NEA25‬
    It looks like these will be the NEA 25. Before anyone gets their hopes up. A look on the FRT table lists a 16" and a 20" version that has a restricted classification. At least that's what those who can check the FRT table have advised me.



    NEA 25 at IWA Germany


    So a couple things here regarding this firearm. At this time neither myself or Yuri have had a chance to look one over or even fire it. Information is limited. Information from the FRT table shows restricted. From all appearances it looks AR308. But... ATR's Modern shotgun also looks AR308 and does in fact use mostly drop in AR308/AR10 parts. So who knows how this will pan out. Rumors however have it that they are hoping for a non restricted status by basing everything on the original AR10 in order for it not be classified as a variant of the AR15 and therefore restricted by Order in Counsel as a variant. We will see. Yes I have been working on trying to get one to check out.

    I'm the first to mention that I have jumped on NEA for their quality control and business practices in the past. When there seemed to be tons of problems and the best anyone could say was they had really good customer service. Yes I received a few infractions over on CGN for it. Am I completely sold on NEA? No. But.... I have seen their latest uppers/lowers and would consider using them for a build. Their newest handguard now looks good and they seem to have come a long way over the years .

    Just so you guys know, Canada Ammo is the vender with the two examples of the NEA 25. I have met Chris from Canada Ammo and he seems like a straight shooter.

    Canada Ammo has stated the following:

    We have been selling NEA for over 4 months now and our rate for returns is 0.0066%

    NEA has stepped up their game with the 2nd generation rifles.

    NEA rifles, uppers, and associated parts are of excellent quality and reasonably priced.

    Not to mention, Canadaammo.com and NEA will immediately resolve any issue to the customers satisfaction.

    Buy with confidence.
    Last edited by Full Metal Jacket; 08-10-2017 at 09:25 AM.

  2. #2
    From facebook:

    They are aiming for MSRP $1499. So $1500 is the goal. We will see.

  3. #3
    SUPER MODERATOR #ThePewPew556's Avatar
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    WELL now...isn't that interesting!

    If in fact they have copied the original AR10 design, there really is no reason for it to be classified as Restricted is the barrel is over 18.5". Sure they would have to modify some parts for not to be stuck with a copyright infringement of some kind.

    Priced @ $1500 I'd be on board for a deposit. Do I expect the same attention to detail / specs control / finish quality as say ATR Modern Hunter (FMJ - you mention ATR's shotgun above, sure you meant hunter) no, but at more than half the price, who cares? I still haven't figured out who manufacturers NEA's barrel, but they are very good, high quality barrels so as long as the receiver is in specs, there's no need to spend $2000+ more if you don't have too (unless looks is #1 on your list - don't think that's the case for most of us here).

    As long as the Liberals just don't ban any and all Semi-Auto's, this great news I think.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BenL View Post
    WELL now...isn't that interesting!

    If in fact they have copied the original AR10 design, there really is no reason for it to be classified as Restricted is the barrel is over 18.5". Sure they would have to modify some parts for not to be stuck with a copyright infringement of some kind.
    The FRT table does show a 20" version. Keep in mind though the current FRT listing still shows the NEA 25 as restricted with the 16" and 20" versions. I'm sure there will be 18.5" and 20" versions if this does end up non restricted.

    I can't see any copyright infringement as the patents for the AR rifles expired a long time ago. This includes the AR10. Also ATR doesn't have a patent on their modern hunter. My guess is that they wouldn't be able to get one as it wouldn't exceed the requirement as being different enough from an AR to qualify. Either way, they have confirmed that they didn't even bother trying. So no patent. As long as they don't use naming etc that is trademarked they should be good to go.

    Priced @ $1500 I'd be on board for a deposit. Do I expect the same attention to detail / specs control / finish quality as say ATR Modern Hunter (FMJ - you mention ATR's shotgun above, sure you meant hunter) no, but at more than half the price, who cares? I still haven't figured out who manufacturers NEA's barrel, but they are very good, high quality barrels so as long as the receiver is in specs, there's no need to spend $2000+ more if you don't have too (unless looks is #1 on your list - don't think that's the case for most of us here).

    As long as the Liberals just don't ban any and all Semi-Auto's, this great news I think.
    You are of course correct that it is the Modern Hunter by name. That being said, try to find a range report. 90 pages on the specs/range reports etc and no range reports. The ones I did see weren't spectacular at all. They seem to have been deleted too I might add from CGN. It seemed 1 moa was very good for the MH with 1.5 moa not being uncommon for 5 round groups. A wicked flier seemed to be a prolific problem. Also keep in mind all the photos I'm seeing are with Night Force scopes etc. So it's not the scopes and with those combinations sitting around the 7K mark I would expect better. I suspect the modifications that allow the side charging handle might be the culprit. I don't know if the mods to the bolt have affected accuracy or the actual cut out etc of the charging handle. I definately prefer the way ADCOR did their side charger. This is speculation regarding what the issue is. But.. there is an issue. A regular AR10 with the barrels etc that those Modern Hunters are shipping with would be able to obtain .5 moa. You shouldn't be jumping up for joy if you get 1 moa. When testing the RFB we were able to get 1 moa 3 round groups but it opened up with 5. 1.5 moa was achieved using 168 grain reloads. The ticket with the RFB was zinc casing ammo. You could get closer to 1 moa with that. That's with a bullpup that wasn't designed for precision. Which again begs a lot of questions as to what is going on with the Modern Hunter? Is it possible people are using the wrong ammo due to the 1:10 twist rates? Is it possible no one buying one can shoot, or that they just don't post? Sure it's possible but not very likely.

    I should also add that there was the odd post with a member on CGN that has shot three examples. Underwhelmed for the price was the verdict. Again 1 moa was considered good. I actually heard someone else refer to the MH as the Modern Shotgun. It kind of stuck. That being said I will try to refrain from using that term here. I should also add that if I could find one for a non ridiculous price that I would love to test drive one and look under the hood. As I've stated before if it shoots as good as it looks or is what it's been advertised as I would likely already own one. A good product is a good product. I'm just concerned that issues have been hidden and my suspicious nature with the lack of accuracy reports has me thinking something is up. I frankly find it difficult to believe that no one buying one of those can shoot groups, especially with nearly all of them sporting NF 5.5-22x scopes. I would have expected to see numerous exceptional groups by now.

    For $1500 NEA may have a winner on their hands. Especially if you can change the barrels, triggers etc. I'm sure ABhobbiyst would be all over that!

  5. #5
    Here at CFC we try to add a bit more to the discussion...

    We were hoping for a bit more time before the cat was out of the bag on this one. As phone calls etc were made a few weeks ago to try and get our grubby hands on one of the samples Canada Ammo has in. It still might happen. We don't know. I'm not holding my breath but if given the chance you can bet Yuri and I will be all over that!! For $1500 non restricted status they may have a home run. That being said, I would have to check one out before being sure . If they don't shoot, or there are issues then that would sour things considerably. With NEA's past track record problems are a possibility.

    So let's take a closer look at what we have here:




    If you zoom in to that picture take a close look at the side shot of the Bolt Carrier Group. It's a bit different. There are three holes going vertical.

    Now let's look at the side profile of an original AR10 rifle. This beautiful photo was provided by one of our members here and is one of his personal rifles. You can find more pictures on the AR10 thread. Note the three vertical holes. Some similarity here.



    Here is a modern DPMS Generation 1 Bolt carrier group (BCG). This is the common design for most AR308 rifles that aren't using an AR10 design.



    Here is a modern Armalite AR10 BCG: Note the similar 3 vertical holes.



    Unfortunately this doesn't really tell us much other than the bolt is Armalite AR10 based rather than KAC/DPMS/LMT/ etc style.

    If you look at the lower from NEA's facebook page. The one in FDE here:



    Now compare the back of the lower to the Original AR10.



    Note the rear takedown pin. A bit of a coincidence? That's an unusual look for a modern AR308 rifle

    Obviously none of this is conclusive. But from what I'm seeing they are going for being based on the original AR10 vs a redesign. The bolt for example on the MH is a modified DPMS style BCG. This is the most common style with AR308 rifles today. While there are a few still based on the AR10 BCG design they are much fewer. For ease of parts from barrels to bolts it would actually make more sense for NEA to go with the DPMS gen1 style bolt rather than an Armalite AR10 based bolt. It would also likely be less expensive to have gone that route.

    Based on what I see, the rumours that they are making the argument for an AR10 predating the AR15 and therefore not being a variant would fit. Again not conclusive but there is some evidence there that would support this is the route they are going.

    One thing I can say for sure if the photos are correct. This isn't a copy of the Modern Hunter.
    Last edited by Full Metal Jacket; 03-04-2016 at 11:23 PM.

  6. #6
    SUPER MODERATOR #ThePewPew556's Avatar
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    "Modern Shotgun"

    I should have taken that comment as sarcasm FMJ, but I missed that one by a mile didn't I

    Pretty funny honestly so I say we keep using it until its proven to be otherwise!

    ***

    Sticking to the original AR10 design & parts is what I see NEA doing and banking on making their case that the AR10 does in fact pre-date the AR15 and thus cannot be identified as a variant. Enoch had posted a pretty good summary a few years back on the timeline of the design and following developments leading to the AR15 - it's pretty clear to anyone who can look at it w/ an unbiased lens that one cannot be linked to the other in the way our FA laws are written.

    Like I said - for $1,500 as an NR .308 w/ the barrel quality that they have access too...could be a no-brainer if it can function w/o the NEA past issues, as you've mentioned as well.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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  7. #7
    The rumour is that NEA has received a conditional FRT as Non-Restricted for the NEA25. This is really exciting if it's true and I can't wait to get my hands on one for an article and review and some solid testing. I may have just found my new hunting rifle for this season.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by BenL View Post
    "Modern Shotgun"

    I should have taken that comment as sarcasm FMJ, but I missed that one by a mile didn't I

    Pretty funny honestly so I say we keep using it until its proven to be otherwise!

    ***
    agreed! Until it is shown otherwise the renaming to the modern Shotgun is a go!

    Sticking to the original AR10 design & parts is what I see NEA doing and banking on making their case that the AR10 does in fact pre-date the AR15 and thus cannot be identified as a variant. Enoch had posted a pretty good summary a few years back on the timeline of the design and following developments leading to the AR15 - it's pretty clear to anyone who can look at it w/ an unbiased lens that one cannot be linked to the other in the way our FA laws are written.
    From what I'm hearing the AR10 argument met with success in reclassifying those new AR looking shotguns (No not the ones from ATR! ). I gather they were originally restricted as AR10 variants which was BS. I can't substantiate this but it was interesting if true.

    Like I said - for $1,500 as an NR .308 w/ the barrel quality that they have access too...could be a no-brainer if it can function w/o the NEA past issues, as you've mentioned as well.
    I remember them having some good secret high end barrel blanks but never did find out which company NEA was using. An excellent barrel and trigger in AR design for $1500. I would give it a try. NEA does still make me a bit nervous but the more recent stuff I saw looked good. Also companies tend to make their AR308 rifles their flag ship models. Could be a decent base for builds depending on parts compatibility. Stripped upper and lowers?
    Last edited by Full Metal Jacket; 03-07-2016 at 07:11 AM.

  9. #9
    SUPER MODERATOR #ThePewPew556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuri Orlov View Post
    The rumour is that NEA has received a conditional FRT as Non-Restricted for the NEA25. This is really exciting if it's true and I can't wait to get my hands on one for an article and review and some solid testing. I may have just found my new hunting rifle for this season.
    Same here.

    Of course it would be a major plus if it actually shoots well, but a Minute-of-Moose, Minute-of-Deer and Minute-of-Mountain-Goat would do just fine for $1,500.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    Benjamin Franklin
    Pennsylvania Assembly, 11th November 1755

    CSSA & NRA Member
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  10. #10
    SUPER MODERATOR #ThePewPew556's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Metal Jacket View Post
    agreed! Until it is shown otherwise the renaming to the modern Shotgun is a go!



    From what I'm hearing the AR10 argument met with success in reclassifying those new AR looking shotguns (No not the ones from ATR! ). I gather they were originally restricted as AR10 variants which was BS. I can't substantiate this but it was interesting if true.



    I remember them having some good secret high end barrel blanks but never did find out which company NEA was using. An excellent barrel and trigger in AR design for $1500. I would give it a try. NEA does still make me a bit nervous but the more recent stuff I saw looked good. Also companies tend to make their AR308 rifles their flag ship models. Could be a decent base for builds depending on parts compatibility. Stripped upper and lowers?
    Geordie (aka Missantropist) knows, but he was then (so I assume still is) under an NDA, but the rumor is true.
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    Benjamin Franklin
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