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Thread: A Pleasant surprise for a Monday Morning from Wolverine Supplies a new WK180-C rifle

  1. #1
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    A Pleasant surprise for a Monday Morning from Wolverine Supplies a new WK180-C rifle

    A new Canadian NR rifle
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine .303 View Post


    Alrighty folks the time has come to get the release done!! There is a good chunk of reading for you below, so I am going to give you a quick short and sweet version here before you dive on in. It's NR, there is no FRT, it's $995.00 plus shipping and tax, .223 Wylde, Ambi controls, made in Canada, ETA for the first 300 units is 12-16 weeks, NO we will not be putting a Spartan logo on the first 300x units, ( That went so well last time ), and we will roughly be seeing 20-50 units per week after the initial batch. Its a first come first serve, so pitter patter, check out the link right below this, and As always:

    You can E-mail us at: sales@wolverineSupplies.com

    You can Call us at: 204-748-2454

    You can send at letter to: Box 729 , #1 River Valley Road, Virden, MB, R0M 2C0 , Canada

    You can send a messenger to : Lattitude - 49.89617 | Longitude - 100.85384 NE ¼ 5-11-25

    ** I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND ORDERING ONLINE FOR THE FASTEST RESULTS**

    LINK TO THE WEBSITE --->>>>>>
    https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Pr...e-Stock-Black-


    WK180-C

    Here at Wolverine Supplies we are proud to announce the WK180-C non-restricted rifle. This exciting “new” rifle was conceived with the goal of providing a simple, reliable, semi auto rifle to the Canadian market with a target retail price of $995.00 Canadian dollars. Most people claimed that this would be impossible to achieve but by keeping that goal in mind from the beginning, we are delighted to say we have achieved it, well at least for our first order.  Here at Wolverine Supplies we took our ideas to Kodiak Defence and working with their design team the result was the WK180-C that we are introducing to the market today.

    This is not a custom rifle, if we offer different options then the price has to go up, which defeats our original goal of keeping it affordable. Remember what Henry Ford said: “You can have any colour you like as long as it is black.”

    We have utilized as many standard “off the shelf” components’ as possible in order to achieve our target retail price of $995.00. The WK180-C will provide a good platform for “plinking”, hunting small varmints and informal target shooting. The lightweight and easy controls make it an ideal choice for teaching youngsters firearms safety and basic marksmanship principals. The WK180-C also provides a good basic rifle that owners can easily customize to suit their individual requirements.

    Our initial commitment to Kodiak was for 1,000 units, with an immediate PO for 300 units. The ETA for the first 300 units is 12 to 16 weeks. After this, estimated production will be 20 to 50 units per week depending on our demand, other factory commitments and the delivery of raw materials. We will continue to update the ETA as this project develops. Our goal is to be able to keep these as an in stock item.

    Lower receiver: Manufactured in Canada by Kodiak Defence they are CNC machined from Aircraft grade 6061-T6 Aluminium and black hard coat anodized Class III. The WK180-C lower is a direct replacement for the factory AR-180B polymer lower receiver.

    Trigger unit: We are using a standard AR15 trigger, sear, hammer assemble, this should allow owners to fit most aftermarket trigger assembles if they choose to. It is to early to guarantee that all aftermarket triggers can be fitted as the WK180-C uses a different safety to the AR-15 due to thicker receiver walls, so some gunsmithing may be required.

    Upper receiver: Most people will recognize the similarity to the AR180 B but instead of a stamped tin receiver we are using a new receiver CNC machined by Kodiak Defense from Aircraft grade 6061-T6 Aluminium and black hard coat anodized Class III. The receiver features a 1913 rail on the top to allow the easy mounting of any optics or iron sights. As supplied no optics or iron sights are included. The bolt carrier is a modified design from the original ArmaLite as the gas piston is higher due to the use of a barrel retaining nut. We use the original style of twin captive recoil spring guides which I believe was pioneered in the US WWII M3 “Grease Gun”. This system allows for increased clearances to enhance reliability and also keeps wear to a minimum. The added advantage is that as no operating mechanism extends rearward of the receiver and therefore a side folding stock can be used.

    Gas system: Short stroke gas piston utilising a one piece gas piston and piston cup. We now use a one piece gas piston similar to the FN FAL and the gas cylinder plug is threaded in like the M14 gas cylinder plug. Our pre-production prototype features a short piston, we are looking at moving to a medium length as I think it presents a more balanced look for production guns.

    Barrels: We have utilised standard AR15 type barrels using original AR15 barrel nuts. By using AR15 barrels we have allowed for easier customisation should the owner require to do so. Barrel length is 18.7 inches / 467 mm to insure non-restricted classification. We have standardised on a medium heavy profile barrel with a 1:8 twist. The combination of barrel length, profile and lightweight gas system has resulted in a lightweight rifle with good handling characteristics and balance.

    Hand guard: A simple light weight free float hand guard that clamps round the barrel nut. Features a 1913 rail on the top and M-Lok on the sides and bottom.

    Butt stock: Again in order to keep to our target retail price all rifles will be shipped with a AR15 type buffer tube and a retractable butt stock. This of course allows for a whole range of aftermarket butt stocks to be used at the owners choice. We will be offering a side folding hinge adapter as an aftermarket option.

    Caliber: Initially the rifle will be available in .223 Rem, chamber will be .223 Wylde allowing unhindered use of both .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO. In the future we do plan on producing her in caliber 7.62x39 and yes, in this caliber we would be looking for a chrome lined barrel, that may put the price up. In 5.56 she uses standard AR15 type magazines, two magazines will be included with rifle, initially these will be the excellent 5/30 rd Hera mags. Following the original ArmaLite design the bolt will lock to the rear when the last shot is fired but there is no bolt release catch. Recognizing that there is no bolt release catch we have made the reciprocating bolt handle reversible to suit either left or right handed shooters. A bolt release catch may be added in the future, no guarantee at this time that it will be in the first production run.

    Warranty: All WK180-C rifles will carry a full one year warranty against defective material and workmanship. All warranty will be carried out by Kodiak Defence.

    Availability:
    Initial field results are extremely favorably, so good in fact, that full production is already underway. These will be available from us, Wolverine Supplies or from any of our stocking dealers. Assuming no major hold ups first rifles should be available in 12 to 16 weeks. We are not taking any pre orders but we are taking purchase orders now. Payment in full now and delivery in 12 to 16 weeks. Should you wish to cancel at any time we will issue a full refund less a $50 administration charge. We will share deliveries between our loyal retail customers and our stocking dealers so please feel free to support your local dealer. Our initial commitment to Kodiak was for 1,000 units, with an immediate PO for 300 units. The ETA for the first 300 units is 12 to 16 weeks. After this, estimated production will be 20 to 50 units per week depending on our demand, other factory commitments and the delivery of raw materials. We will continue to update the ETA as this project develops. Our goal is to be able to keep these as an in stock item.

    Retail price $995.00 plus shipping and tax.

    Many of you will be asking: "Where is the FRT?" the answer is simple, the FRT is pending. As the FRT is not a legal or mandatory requirement the responsibility of ensuring the rifle "is legal" rest with us, the manufacture. The WK180-C rifle receiver is a copy of the non restricted AR180-B, this receiver is already approved as produced by at least two other manufactures. On the WK180-C the barrel is 18.7 inches long, the overall length is with in prescribed limits and she is shipped with two 5 rd mags. There for she meets all the current requirements for a non - restricted firearm.
    . When a firearm is manufactured outside of Canada the importer is required to obtain an International Import Certificate and the Government policy is not to issue a IIC with out first having an FRT. We were told this was a legal requirement, when in fact it is not, but it is Government policy.

    It is not a fluke that the AR180-B is non restricted. We imported the first one from Armalite in 2002 she was declared prohibited by the authorities. I faxed them my presentation as to why that classification was not correct and that she should in fact be restricted or non restricted depending on barrel length. My presentation was accepted and the AR180-B was re-classified non- restricted allowing us to import and market the AR180-B for as long as she was in production.

    As the WK180-C is manufactured in Canada by Kodiak Defense, there is no legal requirement for us to wait for an FRT before manufacturing and marketing the WK180-C, I have this confirming in writing from the RCMP SFSS. See following e-mail:


    Good day John:

    With respect to your statement: - “If Wolverine Supplies was to manufacture a semi auto center fire rifle in Canada with a 19 inch barrel I assume we could simply go ahead and market her without your inspection as there is no legal requirement to have an FRT”.


    1. For the purposes of the FRT, I would like to draw a clear distinction between the “manufacturer” who makes all components from “scratch” including the receiver and barrel and is not just an assembler of components with metal working, metal finishing and woodworking skills, which accurately describes the average “gunsmith”. The former is a “manufacturer”, the latter is not.

    2. I presume that Wolverine (the business entity) in the hypothetical statement above, and their supply chain have all the required licences and authorities.

    Then the answer is YES, BUT the manufacturer assumes full responsibility for assuring accurate classification of the firearm and accessories such as stocks and cartridge magazines.

    Be aware that other regulators may require an FRT Record for their purposes.

    Regards.

    Bill Etter

    F.A. William (Bill) Etter
    Chief Firearms Technologist
    Specialized Firearms Support Services
    Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Services Directorate
    RCMP-CFP
    Specialized Policing Services

     


    If you choose to wait for an FRT before ordering please feel free to do so. If anyone has any concerns or questions I can be reached at: John@wolverinesupplies.com








    Important!

    Please note, this rifle is not in stock, it is a back order only. Orders will be filled in the order that they are received. Orders can be cancelled at any time with a full refund, less a $50.00 administration fee.

    If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us before placing the order.

    Photo shown is of the pre-production model, actual firearm may not be exactly as shown.



    Overview

    The WK180-C is designed and manufactured in Canada to provide an affordable, reliable, lightweight rifle for recreational shooting. The upper receiver is finished with a 1913 rail to allow the fitting of optics or iron sights, sights not included. She is chambered in .223 Wylde which allows the unhindered use of both .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO. Standard AR15 type magazines are used. The free float railed hand guard allows for the attachment of your favourite accessories.

    Specifications

    Manufacturer: Kodiak Defense

    Model: WK180-C

    Calibre: 5.56 NATO / .223 REM

    Action: Semi-Auto

    Safety: Type: Ambidextrous

    Trigger Type:
    AR 15

    Barrel Specifications:
    18.7 inch Chrome Moly. Medium Heavy.

    Twist Rate: 1:8

    Gas System: Short Stroke Gas Piston

    Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider. 1/2 x 28 tpi

    Upper Receiver: Aircraft Grade 6061-T6 Aluminum

    Lower Receiver: Aircraft Grade 6061-T6 Aluminum

    Furniture: Retractable

    Handguard: Free Float, 1913 and M-Lok

    Sights: Not Included

    Finish: Black hard Coat Anodized Class III

    Capacity: 5

    Weight: 7.25 lbs

    Overall Length:
    36.7 inches

    Condition: New

    Classification:
    Non-Restricted

    Accessories Included: Two 5 Round Magazines
    I am not an animal I am a human bean!

  2. #2
    The price is decent and it offers a lot. I'm not sure if I would go this route. But it is a very nice and fairly affordable option. Thanks for the heads up Troglodyt!

    However there are DI versions coming out now as well for non restricted. Those would have the accuracy advantage. For a fun plinker this looks like a fun option. But the others may offer that .5 moa precision for target/varmint. BCL 556 comes to mind, the Macabee (don't like the front screw take down) and the Alberta Tactical Rifle. Due to the competition the ATR one will have to be priced reasonably for a change or it simply won't sell. I have zero trust in that company but if they produce a good non restricted upper/lower that uses AR parts, with a reasonable cost and no weird take down then I would consider one. But the current pricing (haven't seen the BCL 556 pricing yet) is $1000 for stripped upper/lower. So it can get expensive fast.

    Again, for a reliable looking AR180 B based design that takes some AR components, is non restricted and under $1000.... This has my interest.

    As for the FRT. The reasoning above has been researched and they are willing to take on liability. I have had nothing but great dealings with Wolverine Supplies. Would I prefer to wait for a FRT? I don't know. It's a lot easier if stopped for any reason and the rifle is checked. But ultimately it would fall on the police, CO etc to prove that it wasn't restricted rather than having to prove it's non restricted. Could however still cause some pain in the @SS moments. With the above rationale and letter, I would probably chance it.

    Looking forward to seeing what people think of this one. There's some pretty cool stuff hitting the market lately.

  3. #3
    As per my usual lack of self control I ordered one. Going to try to get a sample for my May article.

    The big deal is black non-res rifle that is finally in everyone's price range. I handled and fired a friends 180B and really fell in love with it. This is my chance (unless I feel like paying 2k for one).

    I find it interesting that they are releasing without an FRT. Hopefully that plays out well for them.

    Last edited by driller212; 02-07-2018 at 03:20 AM.
    Shootin stuff in the wild west

  4. #4
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    First batch of 1000 rifles sold out in 75 hours
    I am not an animal I am a human bean!

  5. #5
    Yea, pretty crazy.
    Shootin stuff in the wild west

  6. #6
    A bit more info from Wolverine:



    Would you consider closing the open mouth of the receiver by adding a dust cover?
    Not at this time due to cost.

    What material is the bolt and carrier made of?
    I will have to check with Kodiak and report back

    - Size of Buffer Tube
    Standard AR15 thread so could be commercial or Mil Spec
    - Ejection Port Size
    Slightly larger than AR15
    - Length Of Hand guard
    Approx 11 inch
    - Bolts interchangeability with ar15? (more for different calibers)
    No as different cam pin
    - Estimated production weight
    Target weight is 7 lb I expect final weight will be no more than 7.5 lb max
    - Bolt and Carrier Material
    Will report back
    - Any Close of pics of the gas system, bolt etc.
    Not at tis time
    - Estimated Accuracy
    2 MOA + or -
    - Mid length gas system reasons? (I dont understand what was being asked but this was being discussed)
    Improved look and balance

    Any option to buy without included magazines? Even if its 20-30$ less, I would be good
    No

    Also, since the buttstock/tube doesn't actually do anything, can you offer models without the stock end hardware at a later date?
    No

    For the buffer tube attachement to the lower receiver, how do they connect? Is it like my RRA PDS AR pistol?? They put in an adapter, but removing it I can put a normal tube/stock like in this picture:
    There is an stock adapter on the end of receiver. This can be removed

    Close up pictures of various components would be nice (along with measurements )
    Not at this time.

    Will the 7.62x39 version accept AK mags?
    Not decided at this time, will depend on our market.

    Timing of release of 7.62 calibre?
    At least 6 months, can’t give a definite date at this time.

    A little plastic snap-in cover on the side that your not using the charging handle on would also do the job without any real engineering effort to the gun itself.
    I'd be okay with that
    We could look at that but every addition no matter how small adds to the cost. We need to concentrate on building guns

    Eta on 6.5 Grendel version? Availability on wolf steel case 6.5 Grendel ammo imports? Why chrome line 7.62 version instead of stainless or nitride? Would you use the same bolt for 7.62 and 6.5 Grendel?
    To soon to answer above with any degree of accuracy
    Is 1-2moa a realistic expectation?
    We believe so

    Will it be offered with a longer hand guard?
    We plan on using a mid length system for production guns.

    I noticed this is basically a modern version of the AR-180B. Will the upper of this rifle fit on an Armalite AR-180B Lower? If so, will you be selling uppers separately?
    Yes will interchange. No we will not be selling lowers and uppers separately, we have to concentrate on building complete rifles

    When will it have the option of all follow up shots go to same place as first bullet and net throwing ability ?��
    I will drop everything and get right on it.

    I am curious if you had time to test this platform with different ar-15 magazines? (ex: magpul, troy, fnh, surefire, colt, x-prodcuts, drum magazines, c-products, hex-mag, etc)
    We have tested with several mags but not all the ones you mention. The mags you list should all be made to the same standard but we all know that some guns (and operators) prefer some mags to others. Most the testing has been done with my old C products 10 rd mags and the Hera mags which will come with the rifle.

    Will you ever offer treated barrels from the factory? I know it will increase price but I for one refuse to buy any modern sporting rifle with an untreated barrel, because I'll burn them out too fast.
    It is certainly something we can look into, but we have to give first priority to maximizing production.

    I am curious if you had time to test this platform with different ar-15 magazines? (ex: magpul, troy, fnh, surefire, colt, x-prodcuts, drum magazines, c-products, hex-mag, etc)
    We have tested with several mags but not all the ones you mention. The mags you list should all be made to the same standard but we all know that some guns (and operators) prefer some mags to others. Most the testing has been done with my old C products 10 rd mags and the Hera mags which will come with the rifle.

    Will you ever offer treated barrels from the factory? I know it will increase price but I for one refuse to buy any modern sporting rifle with an untreated barrel, because I'll burn them out too fast.
    It is certainly something we can look into, but we have to give first priority to maximizing production.

    I was thinking the same thing but i dont know that there is clearance for the chargin handle slot for a piece to click in and retain wothout the reciporicating bolt popping it out.
    I will probably just make myself a gasketed cover and then drill/tap it to the receiver.
    Correct

    Is the bolt catch made of folded sheet metal like the original 180 or is it fully machined from solid steel?
    I think on production guns it will be stamped

    Any chance of graving the maple leaf on the receiver? Would be a nice reminder as to where it came from
    Yes, a good chance

    -you say standard barrel nut(assuming AR I’m sure) this would mean compatibility with any AR handguard or barrel nut? Or is it modified to make room for the piston?
    Standard not modified

    -not really a big concern,but I’d prefer short stroke as to medium length gas system,I’ll likely be covering it with a handguard anyways so really not much of a deal.
    No choice as we have to keep production simple to keep the cost down

    -plastic or aluminum cover for the unused charging handle holes would be nice,but again,not a deal break
    Not for this price

    -I’d love to see something like a Robinson arms or magpul Zhukov stock on these as a option later on,simple adaptors would be fine much like the RS regulate ones.
    We plan on making stock adapters in the future

    -AR bolt? I know the 180 is similar but interchangeable with AR bolts would be a huge bonus for anyone want to swap calibers.
    Not possible as the cam pin is different

    -will it accept non beaver tail at grips?
    Yes

    Does this come with a folding stock? Will it accept other AR stocks? Specifically the A2 buttstock?
    No and yes it will

    Can you regulate the gas settings and how many settings are there? Can we have a disassembly video?
    Gas regulator is non adjustable like the M14. Video in 3 to 4 weeks when I get new barrel and gas system fitted.

    How large is the piston gas block assembly, can a 18in long rail be used or will it hit?
    Not all AR15 hand guards will clear the piston. Remember you need to reach the gas plug for disassembly and cleaning

    What size is the barrel at the gas block? 0.625in? 0.750in? 0.875in? 0.936in? So if I want to use a different AR15 barrel I know what size to order?
    0.750 inch

    Can you just give us the material specs on all the manufactured parts. Firing pin, take down pins , etc
    Yes, but I need to confirm some details with Steve first

    If the rear adapter is removed... with other company adapters designed for the 180b fit... ie... is the end of the wk180c the same as the 180b for attachment points once the AR buffer adapter is removed?
    I cannot confirm at this time but photo to follow.


    Handguard compatible with ar15 hand guard that utilize GI barrel nut?
    Our hand guard will have its own barrel nut, standard fitting.
    Oh, can you add a question for the weight of the castle nut/buffer tube/stock to your list? I'd be curious if operating this stockless could shave off half a pound!
    Approx ½ lb

    - is the mag catch standard ar15 than could be user replaced with an ambi model?
    Correct
    - is the gas block adjustable, and if not can you point us at a compatible part that is?
    No and no
    - can you clarify whether the AR buffer threads directly into the lower receiver, or if there is an adapter block?
    Adaptor, photo to follow

    If it is an adapter, looks to be better than the stormwerkz in terms of bore line thrust alignment
    would be great to see adapters for some good folding stocks, rather than using an AR folding mechanism. ideal candidates IMO
    We plan on this

    Also wondering if you'd consider a doing small run of 300 Blackout guns prior to an x39 version?
    Gets us a 30 cal version without a new bolt or magazine compatibility issues...
    Good idea, we may have to do that, we were only talking about that in the office this morning.

    The icing on The cake would be for you guys to include (2) 10 round pistol mags instead of the (2) 5/30
    Not for this price, we could add on lots of goodies but the price would have to go up. There is no such thing as afree lunch 

    Can you tell us how much ID clearance we would need for aftermarket handguards? Thank you.
    I will try and post a cross section drawing of the gas block in the future.

    I just want to know what the gun is made out of before I purchase one. Maybe Kodiak should be answering the technical questions. They are making it after all.
    Receiver specs as per my first “Press release” on first page. Let’s leave Kodiak in peace to build guns, I can take care of this please.

    Why are two magazines being included if the ultimate goal is to make this rifle non restricted and affordable? Would it not be cheaper to have no mags? 0 mags makes sense to me as anyone jumping in queue for this rifle will most likely already have AR15 magazines already.
    We are including two mags as we have superb quality Hera mags in stock and we know that they work well.

    Where can we buy seeds or clones of the magazine tree from the video?
    Sorry that is classified info!

    The bottom of the handguard does not have a rail.....is there anything available that will allow us to attach a bipod to the handguard or is a barrel clamp bipod the only option?
    Production rifles will have a Kodiak hand guard that will have M-Lok at 3, 6 and 9 O’clock

    Does the rifle have a magazine over insertion stop? This is regarding video 1 @0:43 during the reload.
    Good point, no not presently


    I guess as a follow up question, what size is the gas port in the barrel? 0.093"?
    Can’t say at this time as we are changing to a mid length system.

    Any idea of longer handguards that will fit over the gas block? One of these with a 15" or so guard would look great.
    I will post a drawing of the gas block with dimensions and then you can research it yourself.

    Is the Handguard in the videos Approx 11 inch or is the production model going to be "Approx 11 inch" as the information is slightly unclear.
    Hand guard in the video is approx 7 inch on the short gas system. Production guns with the mid length gas system will ba approx 11 inches.

    Are there plans to build a .308 version? Thanks! Very excited for these rifles probally need one in .223 7.62 and .308
    Not off the drawing yet!

    Are there plans for a full length hand guard like the XCR-L competition model??
    Not at this time.

    I know that you are a fellow lefty, but could you still comment on the direction and consistency of ejection?
    Ejection was no problem for me, consistent as per the video.

    Add "plans for a .22LR" version? Either like a cmmg kit, or something completely new
    No, nothing planned.

    More of a suggestion... Considering there seems to be a number of people who want a dust cover... could there be a provision for a hinged one to be installed as a retrofit?
    There will be a mounting hinge for it milled into the receiver (both sides, probably don't even have to be drilled yet to save some cost) but the cover will not be included. Similar to the Colt 'expanse' ARs.
    That way you have a mounting spot if the user finds it necessary. Also opening up the door for aftermarket parts.
    Good idea but not likely to happen. Every operation is time and time cost money, my goal is to keep her under $1,000.00. There is lots of room for entrepreneurs to build accessories and “do dads” so people can customize their rifles. Due to the great demand we must stay firmly focused on building what we set out to build an affordable rifle. Remember what Henry Ford said -


    When might we be able to see an updated picture or rendering of the latest updates (mid length gas, redesign of the handguard, etc)?
    In 2-3 weeks we should have a working mid length gas system. I don’t have a time frame for the new hand guard as Kodiak have to start making them in house. We will have to mock it up with some one else's.

    Hey Wolverine, someone asked about dust cover, but I'm wondering if there is a possiblity of eliminating the left side charging port completely. Is there a way to omit the CNC operation on the left side?
    Then we would lose the ability to insert the charging handle in either side.

    Also, might I suggest that for the rear stock adapter, the threaded portion to be on the adaptor itself, rather than the receiver? In case of the threads wearing down, a replacement adaptor is cheaper than replacement receiver
    Excellent point, but that will not happen as on these rifles that area has to be solid so the “Naughty parts” can’t be installed.

  7. #7
    Have to give Wolverine credit. This is refreshing after the lack of info with the BCL 102!! Some more light reading...


    If I am not mistaken, the gas length of the original 180b is or closer to rifle length. Possible for future consideration to have a rifle length operating rod as parts to purchase? This would open up to barrel length 20 to 22 inches
    If the demand is there we could do a run of 20 inch rifles later but to start with we are staying with 18.7 inch carbines.

    For the charging slot, I just thought having an as enclosed as possible receiver would make more sense in terms of not allowing foreign objects. I'm a righty but would rather have the charging handle on the right side than having the ambidextrous handle slots to invite dirt. You should really do a poll on this if you want to gauge customer opinion. Do it before it's too late wolverine! It'd be my dream rifle if you can get this to happen
    I will conduct a poll but I do not think I will change the design, I didn’t set out to build the worlds next assault rifle.

    Probably a dumb question, but seeing as this takes AR barrels and nuts... would it be possible to use an old school non-free floated hand guard? Or would the piston system render it impossible?
    I think that may work but you would have to dream up a front hand guard support.

    Would you be able to tell us the inner diameter dimensions you would need for handguards if you were to swap handguards?
    I will get a drawing of the gas block posted

    If this all goes south would we all get 12(6) designations?
    Unfortunately not.

    Is the gas block pinned or retained with screws?
    Both

    I actually think the ability to change the charging handle side far outweighs the potential for "crud" to get into the action. If it reduces cost by a decent margin to reduce the price in the future though, it may be worth seriously considering (although I doubt it would).
    I concur


    Is this how the receiver is going to look? So blocky? Or is it going to be a bit more radiused? In particular above the grip.
    Yes

    Did anyone ask about trigger pull? What brand of trigger is in it?
    Will come with a basic AR15 trigger.

    Is the geometry and stock mounting setup similar to the original AR180B?
    No we have a higher improved line
    I'm wondering if the Stormwerkz stock adapters will work. I'd love the option to be able to use an AKFX or Galil-type folding stock. Love the gun, but the M4 stock on it looks like crap. I for one have zero desire to use an bulky AR15 buffer tube on anything that isn't an AR15.
    I am not sure at this time.
    http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/sa-180-02-2/

    Or instead of the included AR buffer mount, an adapter to use Vz58 stocks would even be OK, as there are lots of options there. I personally would also love to see an ACR stock adapter, but I suspect we'll need to wait for the aftermarket to catch up for that.
    Yes with an adapter the ACR stock could be a real winner

    EDIT: and PLEASE do stick with ambi/left-side-capable charging. Right-side only would be a deal breaker for me, and I've already ordered one
    My opinion as well, but I want to hear everyone’s views

    ANOTHER EDIT: would it be possible to add the ability to manually lock the bolt back using a notch at the rear of the charging-handle channel, like the MP5 or Scorpion? That would be awesome, combined with left-side charging. It would allow a user to easily lock it open to show clear with the support hand, without any fumbling, and allow easy release of the bolt at the load/make ready stage.
    No, that would require so major redesign.

    Sorry for the question for you all non restricted lovers, but is a restricted SBR planned or would it be a problem with the non FTR issue?
    Not out of the realms of possibility

    Is there a bolt release or do you have to use the charging handle to drop the bolt on a fresh mag?
    Use the charging handle.

    Is the barrel finish going to be silver or anodized? I'd prefer all black like the one in your video.
    Barrel finish will be black

    Bolt locks open on last shot. Change magazines, pull back on cocking handle and release.
    Thank you, correct

    Ok so this rifle is not even machined yet. Still in design stage with new gas system and a forward grip not in the works either. Is this why I can't get an answer on what the actual internals are made from?
    Receivers both uppers and lowers have been built. We have test fired first gun to 1500 rds. As soon as I saw her I wanted to change to a mid length gas system and longer hand guard. Kodiak will be building the hand guard in house, that is why we used a cheap of the shelf unit for testing. This is a new rifle I am not prepared to disclose all the details at this time.
    So can we have the breakdown of what parts you have made so far and what ones are left to make.
    No not at this time
    Just wondering on time line. 12 to 16 weeks
    And testing period? 8 weeks and ongoing

    I don't agree with companies slapping together a prototype rifle with only the upper and lower made, filled with parts not manufactured yet and calling it a product release. Seems more like a go fund me project. Bad form but it's what gun manufacturing in Canada is all about I guess. Bombard the customer with bul####.
    That is your personal opinion, I find it insulting, I am leaving it up as I have nothing to hide. I have tried to keep this process transparent from the beginning. It is not a go fund me project as we have already paid for it and production started long before our announcement.

    Only thing i like to see changed is to make sure mag has a over travel stop would be great
    A very valid point that I will be sure to pass on.


    Will this new rifle be good for all peoplekind to use??
    Don’t get me started

    The dust cover though is a must for me. I wouldn't buy it without one, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it didn't come with mags, stock or grip...
    I respect your opinion but I think dust covers are a dead issue at this time.

    talking for talking, lets look at what IMI did to the galil ACE DUST COVERT.



    Constructive ideas! Great, thank you, this may have possibilities, I will pass it on but this will mean a price increase, which puts me between a rock and a hard place.

    Are you guys building that piston assembly in house? Will you offer different length piston rods for those who wants to use different length barrels?
    Yes we are building them in house but we have no plans to offer different lengths at this time as our priority must be to produce 1,000 rifles ASAP

    Speaking of which, I assume replacement parts will eventually be available from you to rectify the inevitable occasional part failure.
    We will be stocking spare parts to support our rifles. We just will not be selling uppers, lowers bolt carrier assembles, we have to keep them to build rifles for the loyal customers who have ordered them.

    Lastly, as the charging handle also acts as the bolt release, did the testers find it sufficiently large for this purpose? I remember that was a problem with the AR-15 style Turkish shotgun you were selling a while back. The charging handle was very small and almost painful to use repetitively (as me how I know ).
    I had no problem with it, but I only wear gloves under “extreme” temp when I am shooting. It would be easy and cheap to have an oversize after market charging handle made.

    I am curious if you had time to test this platform with different ar-15 magazines? (ex: magpul, troy, fnh, surefire, colt, x-prodcuts, drum magazines, c-products, hex-mag, etc)
    We have tested with several mags but not all the ones you mention. The mags you list should all be made to the same standard but we all know that some guns (and operators) prefer some mags to others. Most the testing has been done with my old C products 10 rd mags and the Hera mags which will come with the rifle.

    Will you ever offer treated barrels from the factory? I know it will increase price but I for one refuse to buy any modern sporting rifle with an untreated barrel, because I'll burn them out too fast.
    It is certainly something we can look into, but we have to give first priority to maximizing production.

    With bolt on right side does it act as case deflector? Southpaw care. Maybe tack on sheet metal V on right side?
    No, I don't see this as a requirement
    Will you offer optional clamp on bayonet lug?
    Had not planned to

    You raise a very good point but I will need to talk to Steve at Kodiak first. We had planned on making a line of extras ourselves, they can often be more profitable than the firearm in question. The demand has been so great that we may simply have to focus on rifle production only.

    Maybe we should have aspiring manufactures of acessaries approach us first, if their product meets our QC standards we could endorse their product and maybe even offer it in a package form with a rifle. I need to think on this.

    I have to be cautious, I have already heard of someone who plans to reverse engineer the WK180-C and sell a copy![/B]


    Question: is there enough "meat" around the bolt handle slot to accomodate a riveted plate (with rubber insert) such as the SIG 556 uses to keep out stuff from the gun internals?
    Just asking as it seems to be a theoretical sticking point for people to pull the trigger (fuguratively) on purchasing the rifle
    Yes I think something like that could be achieved.

    One technical question; The ar 180b had a bit of play between the upper and lower reciever. Not a show stopper, but will the WK180-C be able to be a little bit tighter in this respect?
    We recognise this and we are looking at ways to address it.

    However will a dust/dirt cover be available for the left side of the receiver as an add on in the future? That way the charging handle could be put on the right side of the receiver and the left side would be closed. Just as an option.
    Dust covers are certainly something we need to look into.

    Will uppers from the Sterling and Howa AR 180's fit?
    I believe they should. If you have one please e-mail me.

    Regarding the Bolts:

    Is Kodiak making them in house or are they an off the shelf item such as an ACR bolt?
    These are not an off the shelf item

    Are the bolts following the AR18/180 design and compatable?
    Yes to general design but not compatible.

    Is the firing pin the same as the AR18/180?
    No

    Will a standard AR15 A2 type stock adapt to the rear of the receiver as it will come?
    Or will it need an additional proprietary adapter to fit an A2 style stock?
    I see no reason why it would not fit on our "standard" adapter as shown here but the LOP would be long.

    Wonder if a DD RIS II would fit over this gas block. hmmm... Mr. Wolverrine, could you answer this since you stock DD products?
    The DD RIS II is not available as a stand alone unit, the end plate will not index on the WK180-C receiver.

    How is the gas block attached? If I were to change the barrel, is it easy to remove? (Clamp style might be the best)
    Gas block will be cross pinned and have a locating screw

    Will the 7.62x39 version require a new FRT?
    That should just be a "Child" entry which is only a formality and is usually completed in a few days.

    I really hope that a dust cover becomes available. Will pay extra for one.
    That is not a priority for us at this time, we must remain focused on producing rifles.

    So the next big question is... After you've done the 7.62x39, how about a pistol caliber carbine version in 7.62x25... (maybe 9mm and 10mm too I guess...) Can and will you make it?
    Other rifle calibers are under development, I have no plans for a pistol caliber but 7.62 TT intrigues me.

    Can this platform be made into a 5.45x39 rifle?
    There is no reason why not.

    Are the people that bought one on the first day going to find out if they are getting one of the first 300?
    All I can say if your order was placed before 4 PM CST you have a good chance. I do not expect to receive 300 in one shipment, much more likely to see a pallet load at a time so the first rifles could be in customers hands before we have the last of the 300 here. By that time all been good we will be having weekly shipments.

    The Ace original skeleton stock which is for the 180b with a stormwerkz adapter and comes in folding or fixed variants. Not sure if that adapter will be compatible with the WK180-C but time will tell.
    I believe it should but I can't confirm at this time as I do not have a stormwerkz adapter here.

    You guys posted all these pictures on your other page about stocks...handguards.....none of the ones pictured are in the links you posted.....could you confirm what brand handguards and stocks these are and if they will bolt right on or need an adapter!
    Any stock other than something using an AR15 buffer tube thread will need a stock adapter, nothing other than maybe the Stormwerkz, is available. Hand guards will have to attach to a regular (or replacement type) AR 15 barrel nut, clear the gas block (dimensions provided) and not have "wings" that fit round an AR15 receiver. The photos posted are mock ups to show the potential of what could be done.

    A long shot I know, but any chances on a more retro/cold war looking design? Integrated front sight, folding stock, polymer handguard?
    Given time anything is possible but first priority is to build rifles and lots of them.

    Also to touch on dust covers, something like the FN Minimi or FNC would be a great solution.
    Good idea, I will look into it but right now we can not afford delays or increased costs.

    I've got a pair of Sterling gloss black handguards I'd like to be able to put on another 180.
    That would require some custom work.



  8. #8
    Even more...


    Asked if there was an accuracy report yet.
    We have not tested this rifle with production barrels, that will be in 2 to 3 weeks. Most of my testing to date has been to confirm operational reliability, in this she has surpassed my wildest dreams. Accuracy testing with a “no name” barrel with the short gas system has been carried out on a limited scale, only about 200 rds of various brands. Results have varied from 5/8 inch to 4 inches (5 rds groups, prone at 100 meters with a quality scope) I think it reasonable to assume 2 MOA + or -. I will post more results when I test the new barrel.

    Will the gun look just like the picture?
    The pictures at the bottom of my first post are very close to what I expect production rifles to look like but with a slightly thinner profile barrel as I am aiming to reduce weight.



    Could these be converted to look like an original AR180. Will an AR180 handguard fit, as well as a buttstock?
    Anything is possible but this would require some creative work. You need to talk to a custom shop, suggest you try RWA, they might be interested.

    Possibility of a .300blk barrel in the future?
    Most certainly, yes.

    Con you make the 7.62x39 version with a chrome lined barrel, because you know everyone is going to be shooting surplus or Tulammo, bimetallic jackets and steel cores...
    We will be making her in 7.62 x39 and I personal think in 7.62 x 39 a chrome lined barrel would be a good idea not sure if we could chrome the gas system.

    I was just wondering if it would be worth it to tap two holes on either side of the receiver to accommodate a simple plate that could seal one side of the receiver. The plate could be designed and sold later, or 3d printed, but at least the machining is there so its just a drop in accessory rather than something that requires the owner to take it to a gunsmith.
    Yes and no, you have a valid point but I have to reconfirm to my original concept of an in-expensive, reliable rifle and now I have a big commitment to deliver on time. I didn't set out to design the worlds next assault rifle, if I had, I wouldn't have overlooked such a basic concept as a dust cover. I have well over 1,000 customers ( even allowing for dealer orders , at least 900) who have purchased her as is with no dust covers. I think it safe to say that you will not see dust covers as a factory option for some time, at least for this year and maybe not at all. .

    [B]The WK180-C bolt carrier rides on two guide rods each with it's own return spring. I believe that this greatly enhances performance due to the large clearances between the bolt carrier and receiver. Admittedly if debris find there way into the barrel extension it could lead to a malfunction but with the bolt forward this is unlikely. The trigger group is the most venerable area but even admitting that you will need to pack the snow or dust in to give problems. Two strips of electrical tape will keep the action clean until the rifle is required for use. Yes I know my "Red Green" fix will be laughed at, but I give you the WK180-C for what she is, an affordable no frills rifle to enjoy, not run off to fight WW III with.

  9. #9
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    what the fixation with dust covers?
    I am not an animal I am a human bean!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodyte View Post
    what the fixation with dust covers?
    It’s preferable. For non restricted bush and farm use It would be a benefit. But the gun is what it is and at the price point it’s competitive without one.

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